Author | Topic | | Learner United States Joined 3/5/2010 831 Posts
Online | | Hello all: I've been playing through a Heil pr35 dynamic mic, and I am now thinking about purchasing a condenser mic (non-electret type). I've been doing a lot of online research, reading as many reviews as I can, looking at frequency curves, output, etc. Based on my investigations, I've narrowed it down to these three: - AKG C 1000 S:
  C 1000 S - AKG site link C 1000 S - Musician's Friend site link - Audio-Technica ATM710:
 ATM710 - Audio-Technica site link ATM710 - Musician's Friend site link - Blue enCORE 300:
 enCORE 300 - Blue Mic site link enCORE 300 - Musician's Friend site link Does anyone here have experience with any of these three? All very different mics for certain. All with very good reviews from both users and audio professionals. The Blue has by far the hottest output, and quite a different response curve, although users rate it highly for dynamic range, power, and a very open sound in a live application. I play with our worship team at our church. Amplified guitars, keyboard, bass, drums. I'm also the chief sound tech, so I have a lot of control over all of the sound. Thankfully, our drums are a very good electronic set, so I don't have to deal with an acoustic drum set. And I run my fiddle through a small Allen & Heath ZED-10FX mixer, so I can do some EQ and gain adjustments right on stage, as well as adding some reverb as needed. Thanks for any feedback you may have (no pun intended!). I think that a condenser would have some advantages versus the dynamic that I currently use. Frank | Edited by - Learner on 04/27/2012 13:27:15 | | UsuallyPickin United States Joined 10/1/2008 339 Posts | 04/27/2012 13:36:46 | I have several AKG 1000 mics and have found them to be very serviceable. The on off switch is small enough that it dosn't get turned off accidently but is a little hard for my fat fingers to deal with. Carry extra 9v batteries. R/ |  | | Learner United States Joined 3/5/2010 831 Posts
Online | | quote: Originally posted by UsuallyPickin I have several AKG 1000 mics and have found them to be very serviceable. The on off switch is small enough that it dosn't get turned off accidently but is a little hard for my fat fingers to deal with. Carry extra 9v batteries. R/ Thank you, Richard. I like the battery option, although I'd probably just be using the phantom power. What do you find is a usable working distance for the C 1000 S? And how pronounced is the proximity effect? In other words, if you position the mic a couple of feet from the fiddle, do you get a good reproduction of the entire frequency range? Or do you have to get closer? Thanks again. |  | | Learner United States Joined 3/5/2010 831 Posts
Online | | I'd also like to open up this thread to comments on any other favorite condenser mics that FHO members may have used at one time or another. Also, ones that I should stay away from. And lastly, if there are members that favor dynamics over condensers; and if so, why? | Edited by - Learner on 04/27/2012 13:57:44 |  | | MikeyBoy United States Joined 1/26/2008 228 Posts | | I have the AKG C1000s and have been very happy with it for use in live situations. Like any condenser mic, it can be prone to feedback (especially in a loud stage situation) but in general it performed very well for me and feedback was less of an issue compared to other condensers. It's been very durable, and it even survived a fire (the grill came off, it's covered in soot, but the electronics were all fine). It's a little "bright," but on stage that can be eq'd if you don't find it to your taste. I have recorded with it as well, but prefer other options for recording fiddle. |  | | MikeyBoy United States Joined 1/26/2008 228 Posts | | quote: Originally posted by Learner quote: Originally posted by UsuallyPickin I have several AKG 1000 mics and have found them to be very serviceable. The on off switch is small enough that it dosn't get turned off accidently but is a little hard for my fat fingers to deal with. Carry extra 9v batteries. R/ Thank you, Richard. I like the battery option, although I'd probably just be using the phantom power. What do you find is a usable working distance for the C 1000 S? And how pronounced is the proximity effect? In other words, if you position the mic a couple of feet from the fiddle, do you get a good reproduction of the entire frequency range? Or do you have to get closer? Thanks again. Re: the proximity effect - I found it best to stay a few feet away. Too close and the mic would accentuate a lot more of the undesirable scritches and scratches (but a better fiddle player than me might not have that as an issue). It is nice to be able to use batteries if you don't have a phantom power source, but I would always seem to forget about turning it off, so they never lasted that long! |  | | DougD United States Joined 12/2/2007 4384 Posts
Online | | I own two C1000s, from the days when they were still made in Austria (before Poland and then China, although that may make no difference). I've used them on fiddle with success, although I know some people really hate these mics. I've never thought to wonder if they are electrets or not - are you sure they're not? I also own a couple AKG C535s, which I think are a better mic, if you have phantom power available. The price difference between these two has fluctuated somewhat - I'm not sure what it is now, since I'm not in the market. Its really meant as a stage vocal mic, but its good on a lot of instruments. There are some other AKG mics that might be good. I have no experience with the other two you're considering. I have a few Audio Technica mics, but only large diaphragms ones, the 4033, and 3035. Good mics, but not really best for fiddle. I think you're on the right track looking at small diaphragm condensers for your purpose - some others to consider might be the smaller Rode mics, which I've never used, or the A/T Pro 37, which is very good for the price (and very hot). I'd look for something with a flat frequency response, and especially not too big a peak in the 3-5KHz range. If you're not singing into it you don't need a built in windscreen (unless you're outdoors). As far as favorites, of what I own my favorite would be the Neumann KM-84, which is a very good microphone with flat response, but no longer made and out of this price range. Some people don't even like condenser mics for fiddle - why do you feel the need to change from the Heil (another mic I've never seen)? I've also used ribbons and high end dynamics with success.That said, I usually try to use condenser mics for instruments, although I've certainly used SM57s too. Edit: Just remember that a mic someone really likes for vocals may not be the best for fiddle, because of the almost inevitable presence peak in modern vocal mics. You might want to check out these: http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/ I don't own any, but his mics are popular around here. | Edited by - DougD on 04/27/2012 14:25:07 |  | | Learner United States Joined 3/5/2010 831 Posts
Online | | quote: Originally posted by DougD I own two C1000s, from the days when they were still made in Austria (before Poland and then China, although that may make no difference). I've used them on fiddle with success, although I know some people really hate these mics. I've never thought to wonder if they are electrets or not - are you sure they're not?............. Good question, Doug. I had to do some digging around on AKG's site. I finally found a service document that did indeed state that it was an electret. I suppose that I'm unnecessarily discriminating against them, versus an electrostatic condenser. Frank |  | | Learner United States Joined 3/5/2010 831 Posts
Online | | quote: Originally posted by DougD ...........................I also own a couple AKG C535s, which I think are a better mic, if you have phantom power available. The price difference between these two has fluctuated somewhat - I'm not sure what it is now, since I'm not in the market. Its really meant as a stage vocal mic, but its good on a lot of instruments. There are some other AKG mics that might be good.
Thanks for the suggestion on this one, Doug. I had not looked at it carefully previously. That is a very nicely flat response curve. How would you compare it to your Neumann? The C 535 S is now called the C 535 EB. It's about $100 more than I want to spend. But I may have to consider it. | Edited by - Learner on 04/27/2012 16:56:21 |  | | DougD United States Joined 12/2/2007 4384 Posts
Online | | Sorry, Frank. I think its always been the 535EB - I meant the "s" as a plural. I'm just doing this off the top of my head though, so I might be a little off on some details. (as well as generally!) Anyway, as you noticed the response on the C535 is quite flat. The peak that's there is above the "danger zone" for the fiddle, and I think is supposed to mimic the "airy" sound of the classic AKGs like the C12, which really is a superb microphone. Two other things that you seemed concerned with - Output level - I'm not quite sure how to interpret the specs, but I know from experience that the C535 is hotter than the C1000, although I don't think that's much of an issue unless you're distant micing a choir or something, which probably either of these could actually do, but would not be the best choice. Proximity effect - I believe that, given access, the best place to control this is at the mic. The C1000 has no provision for this, but you can certainly help it in the mixer. The 535 has a four position switch that's pretty well thought out - 1. Full output level, flat response; 2. Full output level, sharp rolloff at 100HZ (Useful for distant micing where there's AC or traffic noise); 3. Reduced ouput level, flat response (for use with systems that might not have variable input gain) 4. Reduced output level and gentle rolloff below 500Hz (to control proximity effect in close micing). I sometimes use my two 535s and two C1000s more or less interchangeably in sound reinforcement, especially if I don't know how the stage might change, and they both sound quite good. I think the C1000 is a very good mic, and so do others - Of people I know Robin and Linda Williams carry a couple, and Rob Ickes of Blue Highway uses one on his Dobro. In comparison, the Neumann KM84 has a flatter response, and I believe one of the smoothest cardiod patterns ever devised. It has no pad or rollof though, and can sound too "dull" or "boomy" on a close miced guitar, for example, which has to be dealt with in the board. I bought mine in 1980, and they are certainly the most accurate of my mics. I've used them on everything from choirs to classical vocal soloists, to many fiddlers - they're a really great mandolin mic (I think David Grisman likes them) and also for Dobro. Pretty much anything, if you know where to put it, and how to apply some EQ if needed. The current KM184 is brighter - I think Neumann responded to the desire for ever more present sound. Still a good mic I think, although I haven't used them. Interestingly, I think the KM84 is an electret design, which has kind of an interesting history. In the days of tubes it was no problem to send a polarizing voltage to the capsule in a proprietary cable along with the voltages for the tube. I think the Neumann U87 and their KM series were the first transistorized mics, and phantom power was developed for them. I don't know, but I guess they used the electret because there was no more high voltage easily available. The usual knock on electrets is that they lose their polarizing charge, but as I said I've had the KM84's for over 30 years and AFAIK they're still going strong. I sometimes used to discuss recording fiddles with Mike Seeger, who had been a studio recording engineer at one point, as well as a field recordist. He didn't like condenser mics for fiddles - he thought they had too much high end and were too brittle sounding (or scratchy maybe). He preferred ribbons, and I do own a couple, but I like condensers for live use, if the PA is good. They just sound more realistic to me. Sorry for the ramble. Good luck with your choice. I wonder what other fiddlers in situations similar to yours prefer. PS - The Audio Technica and Blue mics you listed are clearly designed as stage vocal mics, and the presence peak might not flatter a fiddle. The C1000 is more of a general purpose mic (although its quite good for vocals) and might be a little better in that regard, although it still has a boost up there. | Edited by - DougD on 04/27/2012 17:52:45 |  | | | Topic | | | | | |  |